Joined: Sept 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 100 Location: Down East Maine Karma: 1
Shooting your old Damascus doubles « Thread Started on Sept 13, 2009, 7:59pm »
Do you have any old Damascus steel double shotguns ? Did you know these are really fun guns to shoot and hunt with ?
The first thing you should do before shooting yours is take the barrels to a machine shop and have them Magnafluxed. This will determine if there's any breaks in the welds. Also look for any deep pits in the bores that may provide a weak area for powder gasses to blow through the wall metals.
A lot of stories have circulated around about how dangerous these guns are to shoot. With older black powder loads that didn't get cleaned properly this can be true. The corrosion can eat the metal and make weak spots in the bore. BUT -- what a lot folks don't realize is that smokeless powder was just coming unto use at the turn of the last century. A lot of old timers tried to use their blackpowder reloading tools and measures to load the " new fangled smokeless " with dangerous results. We today know you can't exchange load data betweem the black and smokeless stuff, right ? In reality the Damascus twist barrels were actually harder than the new fluid steel barrels also coming into use at the time. Being harder also means being more brittle instead of having " give " when you fired them.
A lot of older higher grade Damascus doubles were " nitro proofed " at pressures up to 8,000 psi. I happen to own and enjoy hunting / shooting a pair of such guns. However I do like to use modern smokeless loads instead of the messy black. Yes, I keep getting people who tell me that I should come over to the Darkside... but not just yet guys.
By keeping the load pressures down I have been shooting my Damascus guns for a LONG time and still haven't lost my fingers yet. A good load for these guns are :
Federal plastic hull with a paper basewad. A Federal 209A primer. 23 grains of SR 7625. A Claybuster windjammer style wad 1 ounce of 71/2 shot, and a fold crimp.
This load will give you about 4,800 psi.
Now I know that shotgun pressures NORMALLY are given in LUP not CUP or PSI. The load data was listed in PSI, by Claybuster.
ONE MORE THING you have to keep in mind BEFORE you shoot this load in your Damascus double guns. These guns were built in the days when shotgun shells were ONLY 2 1/2 inches long. Modern hulls are 2 3/4 ". These will fit in the chamber, but will NOT allow the crimp to open fully. THIS WILL build pressures very fast ! You should have a gunsmith ream the chamber out to 2 3/4 " -- and a reamer can be bought from Brownells.
Another option is to get a chamber insert from a company like Briley. This will give you a smaller chamber ( ie - instead of 12 ga, you can shoot modern 20 ga in the gun. ) ME ? I sort of like the old guns the way they are. They're amazing at skeet and even sporting clays. Where I shoot in Maine, I go up against guys with high dollar guns and really can hold my own with these older doubles.
StrawHat Junior Member ALIAS #11 Straw Hat member is offline
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 64 Location: NE Ohio Karma: 1
Re: Shooting your old Damascus doubles « Reply #1 on Nov 13, 2009, 3:08am »
muleequestrian,
I agree with what you have presented. Some of the older shotguns are safe and great to use.
You mentioned higher grade guns, I will comment on lower grade ones.
At a time when damascus was considered the king of barrels and seamless barrels were in their infancy, some companies would finish the barrel with a damascus pattern to resemble the preferred product. Unfortunately, these have been referred to as damascus or twist barrels and hence the confusion. Many of the early "cast steel" barrels were unsafe and did let go when fired.
On the other hand, many companies imported the damasxus as either ingots or barrels or something in between and produced a good product. I do not have a chart to refer folks to but hope to find one or complie one.
Joined: Sept 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 100 Location: Down East Maine Karma: 1
Re: Shooting your old Damascus doubles « Reply #2 on Nov 13, 2009, 2:42pm »
Oh yes ! I once had a " Damascus " double gun that was a seamless barrel. The finish was actually acid etched into the metal to appear like it was an actual Damascus gun. I wouldn't have fired it though, as it looked a little " shakey " to me. I value keeping my fingers ! The gun only had the word SAXTON stamped on the receiver. The barrels had the Belgian crown and shield etched into them under the handguard. On the top of the barrel it said Fine Damascus steel.
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